the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

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Niner
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the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

Post by Niner » Thu May 21, 2015 11:48 am

Just to post something about milsurps for a change I hit upon this subject. Remember those Japanese last ditch Arisaka rifles? The late war models were less and less like the originals as short cuts were made in every place that could be made short of the rifle blowing up in the shooters face. But we don't think much about the shortcuts on the Allies side of the fence. The 4MK1* was a wartime expedient made to start with as "Lend Lease" weapons by Savage Arms in Massachusetts. It was duly marked "US Property" on the receiver in big letters. But as the war progressed and US was well into the war as a participant the US Property continued.

I'd think there wasn't any "real" reason to shortcuts made in the US made weapons, but that's the way it was done. The sight was no longer adjustable with a raised sight ladder and fine adjustment. Instead, there was a L shape two choice battle sight. Must have been cheaper and probably not all that much of a loss since the volley plunging fire of earlier war requirements was a bit unpractical in a war of movement. However the bolt head lock placement was probably a pretty bone head idea and probably didn't save enough money per rifle to be much of a cost savings.

On the made to speck 4MK1 the bolt head release was at the back of the bolt carriage and behind the loading bridge. You had to depress a catch after pulling the bolt back as far as it would go and then turn the bolt head up with your finger . This then allowed you to pull back on the bolt handle and remove the bolt. However, on the Asterisk model somebody got the bright idea to remove the rear catch and make a gap in the side guide rail up near the mouth of the chamber and, with a catch, that turning the bolt head disengaged, allowing it to turn up. The only problem was that working the bolt would bugger up the edges of the gap in the rail and this would produce jambs . The official instruction was to work the bolt quickly and firmly. Small consolation for someone with a bolt that wouldn't feed a round at a critical moment.
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ArchFluffy
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Re: the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

Post by ArchFluffy » Sun May 24, 2015 8:10 pm

Great Post!

I love learning about this kind of thing.

-ArchFluffy
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joseyclosey
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Re: the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

Post by joseyclosey » Mon May 25, 2015 3:07 pm

The forward bolt release I always found a bit fiddly myself.
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Re: the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

Post by Niner » Mon May 25, 2015 3:17 pm

On mine I had to file the buggered edges of the guide rail at the opening on the chamber side so the bolt would reengage the guide after passing the slot in the rail. Before the tinkering the bolt head would jump the track and not reengage when trying to load a round. It works... kinda ....sorta... now.... at least the last time I tried to shoot it. It isn't my go to rifle for a fun day of shooting holes in paper and I haven't shot it in years.
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Re: the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

Post by Reese Williams » Tue May 26, 2015 1:42 pm

If you think about cost changes multiplied by the numbers produced you'll realize that even a small cost saving becomes real money. A lot of the changes in the Lee-Enfields weren't about cost saving though, they were about time savings. How many minutes can we shave off the production of a rifle? That was the reason for the changes from the No.1MkIII to the No.1MkIII* and also the changes from the No.4MkI to the No.4MkI*. Dropping the bolt release slide eliminated the need to machine a complex slot in the receiver, machine the slide and manufacture the spring. The gap-in-the-rail bolt release of the No.4 MKI* didn't cause problems in service. It's only 70 years on with rifles that have been used in God know how many second tier armies, cadet corps etc. that the problem shows up.

The change in the rear sight was for the same reason. Early No.4MkI*s had the micrometer sight. I'd have to dig though the reference books to see when the L sight was adopted. Again, it was a case of accepting a lesser quality item that was cheaper and less machine tool /skilled operator dependent. After the war the L sight was replaced with the micrometer sight when rifles came in for repair. Remember that after Dunkirk the British army was seriously short of small arms. The BSA factory had been bombed and was off-line. Anything that could get rifles through the production line faster was tried. Savage started with the No.4MkI and switched to the No.4MkI* in 42. Savage produced over a million No.4s and Long Branch in Canada a million + more. The No.4MkI* was only produced in North America. The British factories stayed with the No.4MkI throughout the war. So when you think in terms of saving a penny a rifle and a couple of minutes per rifle in production times three million or so rifles it makes a little more sense.
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Re: the 4MK1 and the 4MK1*

Post by Niner » Tue May 26, 2015 3:38 pm

Good to see you posting Reese. Good comment too on the time as well as money savings during the pressing needs of wartime.
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