Swords

Aughnanure · Post by **Aughnanure** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:45 am

Anyone know the correct designation for the last sword to be on general issue in the British and Commonwealth countries?

Some used them longer than the others.

Tom-May · Post by **Tom-May** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:46 am

Eoin,

Not a definitive answer, but I believe the last patterns were,

For the Infantry, the 1897 Infantry Pattern Sword:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/ ... ySword.jpg[/pic]

For the Cavalry, I believe the last patterns carried were the 1908 Other Ranks pattern sword:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/ ... ySword.jpg[/pic]

and for Officers, the 1912 Pattern Officer's Pattern

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/ ... ySword.jpg[/pic]

If you want descriptions of the swords illustrated above:

1897 Officer's (Current model)

The hilt has a nickel plated three quarter 'scroll' pattern pierced sheet steel guard with the EVIIR royal cypher and has a leather sword knot attached to the slot near the pommel. The grip is wire bound black fish-skin. The straight blade is etched half way on both sides with a foliage design having the royal cypher of Edward VII in the centre. There is a single fuller on each side for half of the length. The ricasso is etched with the interlocking triangle symbol on the right. A buff leather washer is attached to the blade where it meets the hilt and the back edge is stamped 566. The brown leather scabbard has a nickel plated chape and throat. Attached to the scabbard is a 'Sam Browne' frog with two belt straps,

1908 OR's

Hilt Mounts: Pommel and ferrule at bottom of grip are of malleable cast iron. Grips: Dermatine or similar light brown plastic with a large depression for the thumb, grip length 6.75 inches. Guard: Sheet steel bowl with a beaded edge stamped 2KEH A81; sword knot slot near the pommel and a large pear shaped reinforcing piece on outside near blade shoulder. A brown leather sword knot is attached to the guard. The blade is straight tapered with a single fuller on each side to within 8 inches of the spear point and double edged for last 6 inches and stamped P'08 on the back edge near the guard. The ricasso is stamped on the right with a broad arrow and EFD, a proof mark, X and on the left two inspectors marks and 3.15. A buff leather washer is pinned to the blade where it meets the guard. The scabbard is tapered sheet steel with two fixed strap loops 2.25 inches from mouthpiece.

1912 Officer's

The hilt has a nickel plated steel bowl guard decorated on the outside with a scroll design and has a sword knot slot near the pommel. It is stamped 3 over 86. The fishskin grip is bound with German silver wire and there is a brown leather sword knot attached to the guard which is stamped 19 LH. The straight blade has a single fuller to each side to within eight inches of the spear point and is decorated with a floral design and the GVR cypher. The back edge is etched LONDON MADE and the ricasso has the makers name of HENRY WILKINSON PALL MALL LONDON. The brown pigskin leather scabbard, marked 86 near the nickel plated throat, has a collar and strap to attach it to the Sam Browne belt frog.

Tom

stripperclip · Post by **stripperclip** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:55 am

good info there and the 1908 looks very much like the1913 Patton sword issued here in the states.

TaosBob101 · Post by **TaosBob101** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:50 pm

There is a M1913 Patton sword at the shows around here for the past two years...700.00USD. Still there.

Aughnanure · Post by **Aughnanure** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:55 pm

Thanks very much, chaps. Always liked military swords and worked on them quite a bit; especially after formal nights at the Officers' Mess.

After the Senior Oficers had retired some of the 'juniors' (not necessarily in age

) would indulge in a spot of sword fighting.

Ever wondered why there are no dress pistols?

The swords that they had were Warrant Officers' Patt. 1907 (IIRC) and we armourers used to check them over before they went back to stores.

Every now and again we'd have a legit. job of refurbishing a hundred or so for Ordnance..

However the answer hasn't come up yet.

(saving Big Smiley for later).

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:21 pm

"...general issue..." Officers were and are required to purchase their sword. Swords don't and didn't get issued. Wilkinson still makes the 1912 pattern for dress occasions. They run around 2 grand, USD, I think for a new one.

Cavalry troopies were issued the same sword but without the engraving etc.

When the Canadian Army was alerted for W.W. I, officers were told to send their swords to the armourer for sharpening.

Aughnanure · Post by **Aughnanure** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:04 am

Thanks for that Sunray.

In Australia swords did get issued as required.

However I'd still like to know the answer to the question.

Any further guesses before I reveal the answer and bring hate down upon my head?

Remember 'general issue', that's not only Officers.

Woftam · Post by **Woftam** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:07 pm

I'll bite.

Large shiny pointy thing Mk 1 ?

Or possibly -

Sword, general issue, idiots, for the use of ?

PS I'm just guessing

Tom-May · Post by **Tom-May** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:36 pm

Eoin,

If you want to get really pedantic, for the British Army it would be the bayonet for the SA80 - as issued to 'The Rifles'

(Rifle regiments traditionally refer to their bayonets as 'swords')

Tom

Aughnanure · Post by **Aughnanure** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:02 am

Not really pedantic.

The last general issue was the 'Sword, bayonet' for the No1 rifle.

Now it was a sword and its purpose was as a bayonet all the later ones are 'bayonets, whatever'